Suzuki 1500LC/C90 Forum F.A.Q.



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Mamba Forum member since 12/01

Many Thanks To Mamba for creating this FAQ!

Now Maintained by Crow and Fritz

 


 


Electrical


What can I do to improve electrical system operation?

See the Helpfiles on Crowitis.com Here   Specifically the Documents under the Electrical category. Through the years we have evolved and learned. Many thanks to Gene, Wes, Mocc and Dan, and others who have all contributed and taken the time to write up electrical modifications, that we now enjoy. What used to be a common problem, is now a small task to beat, modify, upgrade and optimize the charging system on the VL500's. There are several worthwhile articles in the Helpfiles explaining the weaknesses of the VL1500 charging system, and instructions on what mods you can do to correct and prevent the problems with the charging system.

Courtesy of Forum member "OneFromOz"
IMHO, the GBat will only help your situation and in a big way. But, there are a lot of battery, starting & charging related connections that are never even checked let alone inspected, cleaned & tightened.

My list of stuff to check/clean/tighten is getting longer. Recently saw a really corroded ignition module connection which fed the coils wires - those three connectors are supposed to have a rubber seal for protection but it seems it doesn't work all the time - so here's the updated list (in order) so that you will definitely know that all related terminals/connections are actually clean and working.

If the existing battery is fine after a charge (or you get a GBat), it sounds like you may have some connection issues - hopefully nothing more serious than that.

Yes, you'll need to "skin" the bike.

And check a couple of connectors too. Check and clean the RR connection plug, check it for any melting. The Red & Black wire on mine decided they couldn't be apart any longer and decided to melt into each others arms!! :-) I had to add a bypass using an additional high amperage dual connecter for those two wires. Connector was from a GMC truck alternator bought from an auto parts store.

The thin red wire in top of the Starter Relay also has a history of melting inside the plug. Examine it very closely. It's listed in the check list below.

There's a lot to cleaning ALL the connections necessary to ensure they are clean. Here's a nice list (in order) for you to go through and clean/check. Do not just check if they are clean or even look clean, actually sand/clean them as it is important to do so:

* Disconnect the Negative cable from the battery. Give it a clean with fine sandpaper etc. Leave it disconnected for the moment.
* Disconnect & sand/clean the battery Positive cable - reconnect when done.
* Disconnect the Negative cable from the right side of the Starter Motor. Sand/clean this and put a star washer either side of the terminal before securing back on the Starter Motor. This is one of the primary Negative ground points on the bike and often missed in maintenance.
* Skin the bike so you have access to the Starter Relay under the left faux tank and towards the front. Unclip the small cable assembly that goes through the plastic cover. Inspect the thin red wire of that cable and look for any melting etc on either side of the connector - ensure to inspect very closely. Leave this cable off for the time being.
* Remove the Starter Relay plastic cover.
* Remove the Positive cable from the Starter Relay. Sand/clean it and re-secure it. This is the main 12v Positive connection for the bike.
* Remove the Negative cable from the Starter Relay. Sand/clean it and re-secure it.
* Place the plastic cover back on the Starter Relay and re-connect the cable through the top.
* Remove the three connectors going into the top of the ignition module. Check each very carefully for any signs of moisture corrosion. If there is corrosion, clean each end of the connecting parts (hard but can be done) and apply some dielectric grease to help prevent this in the future.
* Remove the RR cover and inspect the RR plug for melting in the area of the Red and Black wires.
* Remove the right handlebar switch cover and clean both contacts of the Start Button switch - you'll be surprised how dirty these get. And watch out when you pull the Starter Switch apart - there is a spring in there!!! :-)
* Re-connect the battery Negative cable.

IMHO, the LC/C-90 has a weak/flaky Negative Ground system. I added an additional Negative cable to the battery and secured to to the frame/bracket that holds the rear brake master cylinder.

Since doing the above list and adding a second Negative cable and GBat (over a year ago), I've had absolutely zero problems and haven't cleaned any terminals since. The GBat has never had a charger on it. And yes, I do run a LOT of electrical extras and while riding, always have two green LEDs (14v) on the volt meter well over 90% of the time. It may not be the greatest charging system on two wheels, but once all is in good working order, it is more than enough IMHO.

Many will recommend using dielectric grease while doing any battery related cleaning. IMHO, I do not put dialectric grease on most parts and then tighten. I will sand, clean and tighten them to ensure a 100% clean connection and only then will I apply dielectric grease on the outside to protect them from the elements. Again, IMHO I can't see any value in putting a non-conductive liquid on electrical parts you want to make contact - I can see where it does help as an outer protection layer. I did use it on the ignition module connections due to not having many options otherwise. Other opinions will vary on this.

Apologies for the long post but it should cover all the bases. The above list will take between 1-2 hours for the average wrench and is not difficult, just tedious. But it is very well worth doing.

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Where can I find an electrical fault-finding flowchart?

See this PDF from Electrosport Industries.
They also carry replacement stators and rectifiers.

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How about a large format wiring diagram for the C90?

See this PDF, courtesy of Forum member "Cruiser_C90"

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What is the Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) and how is it adjusted?

See this info from the old Intruder 1500 site

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A dash light bulb went out, now what?

See this link for replacement instructions and how to adapt a cheap replacement bulb.
You can also try Advanced Auto Parts (Discount Auto) for a DIRECT replacement bulb (Sylvania 2721). They just plug in with no filing, cost may vary but some have paid $2.48 for two bulbs!

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Where is the main fuse and the fuse box located?

The main fuse is located behind the left upper faux tank cover,
while the fuse box is under the right crankcase cover
See the Service Manual

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What is a Dyna 3000 and should I buy one?

Courtesy of Forum moderator "Half Crazy"
The Dyna 3000 is an adjustable ignition module. It has 8 different advance curves for timing and adjustable rev limit, with 6 dip switches (three for RPM limit and three for curve selection). The unit will cost around $250. Its value is in being able to make the most of other performance enhancing modifications. On a stock bike you would probably be wasting your money unless you intend to install pipes and rejet the bike later. Most owners believe the Dyna is worth it and find that settings for either curve 2 or 3 work best. It will give you some tuning options to make the most of what you have. Although it allows you to raise the rev limiter above stock, set it at 6000 RPM. The engine stops making good power before that anyway. One good thing is that the starter is locked out after 500 RPM so that you can't accidentally engage the starter while the bike is running. The bike fires quicker when you push the starter button.

Check with the Forum vendors for best pricing

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What is a battery tender and how do I hook it up?

For more info see this site

Courtesy of Forum member "Wes"
What I did was went to a local parts house and got a two wire insulated connector, ran a couple wires to the + and - of the battery and then wired the other side to the charger. I left the plug outside the battery box and nylon tied it to the existing wiring harness down by the battery. Lets me connect a charger without having to undo the battery box every time.

Check with the Forum vendors for best pricing

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Which replacement battery should I buy when the time comes?

While there are several choices and manufacturers, Westco is the one of the most popular. The Westco SVR-14L battery has 20 more CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) than the OEM replacement Westco 12V16-B. It costs a little more but many think it's worth it since the LC tends to be slightly anemic in the electrical department.

A newer offering is the GBat from Gman Industries. It can deep cycle as well as provide enormous cranking power.
Click here to download a pictorial on how to modify the GBat terminals and cable ends for a cleaner fit.  Updated 01.15.06
I noticed you have a zip file showing how to modify the battery cables/GBat to better fit. It’s informative but a bit out dated (just thought you would like to know). We actually eliminate the brass ‘L’ metal pieces and corresponding housing nipple before shipping now and all that is needed by the new purchaser is to flatten the LC cables a tad to make them fit under the battery box lid.
-Gary(GMan)

Or, try the battery for the V-Rod. Available at your local HD dealer. It needs a spacer in the bottom of the box to raise it up a little but it's more powerful than the stock LC battery, and cheaper.

Check with the Forum vendors for best pricing

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Have power but she won't fire...HELP!

Here is what I went through recently, as I was get'n ready to take off on a ride with my buddy Vic. Turned on the ignition, heard the fuel pump run okay, had lights and other indicators of normal power but when I pushed the Start button...NOTHING. No clicks, no nothing. Battery being fairly new, I checked/tightened the terminal connections. But I doubted that was it since I keep those clean and tight, plus I had strong lights. Main suspect was the "safety" switches (clutch lever, kickstand) and the handlebar starter switch. I pulled apart the latter (2 screws) and found a dead bee across the terminals inside. Thought "Ah HAH!" but after cleaning that out, still no fire. Checked the fuses (under oil filler cover, right side) just to be sure the bee didn't short something, but all good. Vic suspected the clutch lever switch as this happened to him in the past. I checked the kickstand switch plunger action first but looked like the plunger was working okay and the clutch switch is easier to get at. Removed the one screw and disconnected the wire clip, then opened the switch. Pretty grimy looking in there. Used a little gas and toothbrush to clean the contacts. Let it dry thoroughly, then reassembled (keep an eye on that spring!) and remounted. She fired right up!
This has happened to a few others but first time it's happened to me. Cleaning those switches will now be part of my LC's 6 month checkup routine.

- Mamba 06/17/07

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She won't fire and I think it's the "pickup coil"..what now?

Courtesy of Forum member "pmedic687"
A few weeks ago I posted, "She won't fire".  I was told to start by replacing the "pick up coil" I was given a site to buy one that was actually designed for the Yamaha grizzly or raptor 660.  It looked identical, wires were even the same color.  I installed it matching the wire colors which were a light green and dark blue.  Cranked it over and it fired.  Ok here is my problem.  It is running like crap.  Back fires, pops, hits on one cylinder half the time, shoot fire out the exhausts. Could the wires be wrong? it sounds like it is out of time.
Update:  Problem solved!  It was as indicated. If you buy the pick up coil from : http://www.rickystator.com/product/stators/yamaha/yamaha-raptor-660-pickup-coil
The wiring is backwards of how it looks.  In my case both pick ups had a green and a blue wire, on the OEM and the replacement  At the connector the wires were light brown and green.  Once I switched them she runs goooooooooood.  Thank you everyone for your input. Chalk another problem solved to the group!

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I think my rectifier isn't working right, can I fix it?

Courtesy of Forum member "JimJC"
There is a three-wire plug from the stator that connects a short length of wires to the R/R plug going in to the R/R (alternating 3-phase current in to R/R). Then wires out of the R/R go through the same R/R plug to the ignition and accessories. If you did the charging mod as indicated on Mocc's site then you added a wire to the load side of the R/R plug to the main fuse block. Unfortunately that just adds to the load on the spade connector in the R/R plug for voltage out. LOOK at those plugs. If there is any sign of crispy insulation of the wires entering the plugs then do the following:

Remove the R/R from inside the bulbous cover (two Phillips screws)

One by one and pair by pair cut the wires from both the stator and R/R plugs and butt connect each corresponding pair of wires on the male and female plugs using good crimp type butt connectors. Be careful to keep the wires matched up by doing them one at a time. You will eliminate all the spade connectors in the plugs that cause resistance (and thus voltage / current loss) and it will be wired solid. Tape up the entire loom with good electrical tape and it'll be weatherproof and clean.

Also check the plug at the ignition switch and the harness plug at the main fuse block under the left false tank at the air cleaner. Look for any signs of heating like crispy insulation or melting. The Spade connectors should not look like they've gotten hot (darkish color). You can insert a small screwdriver in the female end of those plugs and close the femal spade connector a bit so the male connector fits nice and tight. Also when you plug the connectors together use a small screwdriver from the backside of the plug and make sure the male spades are fully engaged into the female ends.

Stick that puppy on a charger for a while and it should roar back to life. I thought mine was shot too when I bought a new Gbatt and it wouldn't stay charged. Did this fix and I haven't had it on a charger in six months. Starts strong every time.

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Courtesy of Forum member "JScharbrough"
I and others have recently had the issue of the battery not being charged. I post this in an effort to simplify the process and maybe help someone out in the future. Anything you can add to this will surely help someone along the way.

I have spent a lot of hours reading threads here (on the Forum) and Google'n everything I can fid about the stator/magneto and rectifier. A lot of the stuff was confusing but with the help of a lot of folks here I have a better understanding of what is going on and how to isolate the problem.

First it seems that the major cause of problems here is bad or fried connections. Mocc and Mamba have great info on checking the wiring and that should probably be your first step.

Your charging system -

In simple terms here is what happens. Your stator/magneto uses the motor to generate electricity that is then used to charge the battery. Simple so far. When the motor is running you should be charging the battery.

The stator generates AC or alternating current. This is the same type of stuff that comes out of a wall jack except the stator generates between 50 and 80 volts plus or minus and the wall jack is around 110 volts. The bike has to convert the AC to DC so the bike can use it. The rectifier does the conversion job among other things

If the rectifier is sending 12+ dc volts out then your entire charging system is ok so that is a good place to start the test. (if your stator is bad the rectifier can’t send the volts)

Test for the charging system -

Major Edit based on experience. All you need to do to know if the charging system is working is the following; First start off with a charge battery, leave it on a charger until it reads at least 12.5 volts. Take the charger off and check the battery reading again it should be around 12.5. Now start the bike and in idle record the voltmeter reading. It should be around 12.5 +or- a few 10ths. Now leaving the voltmeter connected to the battery give the engine some gas to get the RPMs up. the voltage should increase into the high 12's and 13 range. As your RPMs increase the volts should increase. If the volts don't increase then that means one of 2 things either the Charging system has failed or the current can not reach the battery due to bad connections.

To test at the rectifier you will need to get a test lead in contact with the wire. You can sometimes slip the probe in the back of a connector and if you can and you run the engine and the volts go up then the rectifier is good and you have to look at the wires between the RR and the battery. If you get no reading here the connector may be the issue. You will need to splice into the wire with the probe and run the test. Again if the voltage increases with the RPMs then the charging system is good but power is being lost through the wire between the charging system and the battery.

The rectifier is designed to turn off and on depending on AC voltage received so that it does not overcharge the battery. (Chapter 7 page 6 of the manual) Hold your test leads on the wire for a couple of minutes and observe voltages at different RPMs. If you see voltage increase then the rectifier is good and you know that the two major components of your charging system are ok and now you can concentrate on bad/dirty/fried connections and bad wiring and blown fuses. If you do not get 12+ volts then either your rectifier is bad or it is not receiving enough power from the stator.

Test the Stator -

We have a stator making 50-80 volts AC that is what you should get if you put your tester on the 3 black wires that come from the stator to the rectifier. To test this set your multimeter to AC voltage and test the voltage between these three wires while revving the motor to around 5000 RPMs. This is pretty high if you don’t have a tach just hold the throttle open and watch the volts climb. They should read above 50 if they do then forget about the stator it is fine and you do not need to replace it. The official stat for the LC is 80 volts at 5000 RPMs.

Now you should know if the charging system is good or bad and if it is bad you should know what component is bad and needs replaced. If it is good then the trouble is that the power to charge the battery is being generated but is not getting to the battery. Find the fault. Again look for fried wires/connections, blown fuses (some versions of the charging system bypass include a fuse, which if it blew would prevent the battery from charging).

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Courtesy of Forum member "oilcan1500lc"
Here are the results on testing the (C90) generator (see this page for the LC testing). Do not start the engine. Disconnect the plug with the three black wires on the R/R. Set your multimeter on 200 Ohm's. Take the two probes from your meter. Touch one black wire with one probe and then touch the other two black wires, one at the time. Your meter should show a value. From 0.1 to 1 Ohm when testing any two wires. Then do the same with the third wire in the plug. Once completed, redo the test but start with a different black wire in the plug and proceed in the same matter. Once the resistance test is completed, set the meter on DIODE/BUZZER. Ground one probe to the bike and test all three black wires in the plug. If your meter does not show any value or doesn't buzz, your generator is good. I also did a voltage test on the generator. With the R/R unplugged from the bike, I got 27 VAC at idle speed and 70 VAC at a higher rev. Make sure that your meter is set to AC before testing the generator.

Diode Test for the R/R on the LC and C-90
Here is the updated testing for the R/R for the LC and the C-90. The results are the same on both LC and the C-90. The only difference is the C-90 as two B/W (ground) and two B/R (12+VDC) wires.

I tested my functional LC R/R with my Digital multi-meter set in Diode mode.
Take your meter probe matching the color on this chart and touch the corresponding wire.
When testing any wires, test only one at the time.

*Note on the R/R for the C-90*
The R/R has two connector plugs. The plug with the three black wires is for the generator. The other connector plug has four wires, two B/W and two B/R wires. The two B/W wires are ground and the two B/R is your 12 + VDC. When probing the B/W and the B/R, do the test using all four wires, one at a time.

 

 

PROBE COLOR             CONNECTED ON          TESTING WIRE             RESULTS

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BLACK                                     B/W                          ALL 3 BLACK                      0

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BLACK                                     B/W                                 B/R                                  0

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BLACK                                     B/R                            ALL 3 BLACK                VALUE

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BLACK                                     B/R                                    B/W                          VALUE

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RED                                           B/W                          ALL 3 BLACK                 VALUE

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RED                                           B/R                            ALL 3 BLACK                      0

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RED                                           B/R                                    B/W                                0

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RED                                           B/W                                   B/R                           VALUE

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How do I replace the stator?

Courtesy of  various Forum members
Here is a pic of a stator before replacement, so you know what it looks like.
Info on testing a stator can be found in the article above this one.
Never had to replace my stator, but here is collected info (various contributors) from the Forum:

Stator replacement requires removal of the left floorboard (two bolts and a shift linkage), the larger rear left engine cover, then the smaller front left cover (where the stator actually is). This could necessitate an oil change, as you will lose your oil when you pull the stator cover.
If desired, you can change the stator without draining the oil, as follows:
You need to lay the bike over on the right side as far as you can without doing any damage. It would be nice if there was something like an old tire to lay it on. Then take off the left side motor cover and the bubble cover to the right of it. Most of the oil will have moved over to the right side of the engine since the bike is laying that way. All you need to do is to replace the stator and reconnect the wires the same as they were. There is only one thing that could mess you up and that is if the spacer washer comes off the starter motor shaft. It may stick to the magnets in the rotor and when you put it back together it will damage your new stator.

There are no special tools required, and nothing really technical about stator replacement. It simply bolts into the cover, with it's wires running through a rubber sealant plug, and plugs into the harness under the larger rear cover.
I seem to recall that there is a starter bushing or a locator pin or something that tends to fall off and you have to be careful that it stays in place when replacing the stator cover, but other than that, stator replacement is a piece of cake.

A little advice from someone that's replaced a stator twice. If your stator goes bad replace the RR even if it checks good. Replace both the stator and RR as a unit and I also suggest replacing the battery at the same time. All my connections were good and the only accessories I had were driving lights. The first stator went bad and I didn't replace the RR. A few thousand miles later my stator went bad again. I then replaced the stator and RR with Suzuki parts this time.
While some say the Suzuki parts are okay, many prefer to buy from the folks at www.electrexusa.com. In their words, "You'll save money, you'll save back-order time, and you'll have a better product."

Here is additional info on removing the side cover:
http://mambaville.com/forumfaq/MotorDrivetrain.htm#LeftOilLeak

Here is a link to the online service manual, tho' I seldom find the pix or info in there to be especially helpful:
http://mambaville.com/forumfaq/LCService/Manual/manual-index.htm
Removal procedure section in the manual starts here:
http://mambaville.com/forumfaq/LCService/Manual/3/3d-1.htm
 

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